record_id: 2b7f8b3e-f83d-811e-b94e-e17ea65392cd
created_time: 2025-11-26T20:41:00.000Z
title: 11-23 Reasoning Note: Forgiveness and Trip Planning
source_url: 

[TRANSCRIPTION]
Speaker 1 00:00:04
Some of us have real pain, some of us have real hurt, but that which we deal with will never outmatch that. So as the Lord has forgiven us, yes, we must forgive. I really like how Tim Keller puts this. He says, forgiveness is not the absence of anger. It's not about being emotionless in this.
Speaker 1 00:00:35
He says it's the presence of mercy. First, it's refusing to make the other person pay for what they've done because Christ refused to make you pay for what you've done. Forgiveness is not holding judgment against our brothers. Christ has not. Help that as the Lord has forgiven you.
Speaker 1 00:01:06
So you also must forgive. We must. Now before I share a story of what I think to be a really tangible, powerful expression of forgiveness. Hear me say, I think the heart behind forgiveness is very clear. We must forgive from our heart, out of love. But I really believe that the application of forgiveness can be really confident. It can be really tricky.
Speaker 1 00:01:38
So I want to draw some clarity here. And what I want to do is I want to say this. Forgiveness is not always about restoring things to the way they were. That's not what forgiveness necessarily means. Some situations will look like that. But God didn't treat the Israelites in that way. He still held consequences, he still made them wander for 40 years because of their sin, but he forgave them and didn't withhold judgment.
Speaker 1 00:02:09
Likewise, forgiveness is not about breaking down boundaries that have been established. Sometimes boundaries are really, really healthy and need to be in place. In some of the complexities of our situations, they need boundaries. And forgiveness isn't even about trusting the other person. The hard reality is sometimes with forgiveness, the person who hurts you doesn't even know they hurt you, or they don't even care.
Speaker 1 00:02:41
And you've got to ask, what am I going to do with this forgiveness? It's not about restoration all the time, it's not about breaking down the boundaries, it's not about even trust. It is about the glory and kingdom of Jesus. As we have opportunities to forgive our brothers and sisters around us, may we be driven by the fact that it's at the heart of the gospel, and therefore people are engaging with you in the heart of the gospel.
Speaker 1 00:03:15
And so respond in a way with wisdom and discernment that's best for your relationship with the Lord, and that's best for their relationship. We only have so much control in this, but may we move forward for the name and the glory of Jesus as we forgive. Now, how many of you guys have ever heard the story of Corrie Tenenbaum? Really, really powerful. She's famous for this quote, to forgive is to set the prisoner free and to discover that,
Speaker 1 00:03:45
hello, the prisoner was you. But let me share just a little bit of background with the story. In the mid-1940s, her, her father, and her sister, this was in the middle of the nazi and they owned it and above their watch shop they had a place that's called the hiding place where they hid over 800 people from the nazi scene and then in february of 1944 their resistance work was betrayed they were sent into concentration camps.
Speaker 1 00:04:21
and over a span of 10 months before corey was released her father died and her sister she had to watch her so corey's released from prison and spends the rest of her life boldly sharing her experience but more boldly sharing her face we're going to watch a two-minute story and this is about an experience an encounter that she had with one of the guards that was responsible for her.
Speaker 1 00:04:53
sisters.
Speaker 2 00:04:56
Some time ago that I was in Berlin, and there came a man to me and said, Ah, Mr. Brom, I am glad to see you. Don't you know me? Suddenly I saw that man that was one of the most cruel outseers, guards in the concentration camp. And that man said, I am now a Christian, I have found the Lord Jesus, I read my Bible and I know that there is forgiveness for all the sins of the whole world,
Speaker 2 00:05:28
also for my sins. I have forgiveness for the cruelties I have done. But then I asked God's grace for an opportunity that I could ask one of my very victims forgiveness. And for that I won't see me forgiven. Will you forgive me? And I could not.
Speaker 2 00:05:58
I remembered the suffering of my dying sister through him. I was not able, I couldn't meet him. Then, I took one of these beautiful texts, one of these boundless resources, Romans 5-5. The love of God is shed and brought into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who is given to us. And I said, thank you that you have brought into my heart.
Speaker 2 00:06:34
God's love through the Holy Spirit who is given to me. And thank you, Father, that your love is stronger than my hatred and unforgiveness. That same moment, I was free to say, Brother, give me your hand and I should... As if I felt God's love stream through my arms. You'll never touch the oath of God's love as if you...
Speaker 1 00:07:07
Incredibly powerful. I mean, Cory's is probably here, right? Cory's is probably there. A depth of depravity and brokenness that we can't imagine. But what led her to forgive was two things. She remembered what she had been shown. And practiced putting on the very heart. A love that's filled with humility and meekness.
Speaker 1 00:07:44
I find God to be very funny in certain situations. You want to know what's funny about this text? Is that my guest... is that some of the people we're struggling to forgive, you're gonna be sitting next to them on Thursday. Isn't it often the people closest to us that maybe we're holding a little bitterness and anger and wrath towards and a withheld forgiveness? And they might be sitting right next to you for eight hours.
Speaker 1 00:08:16
So what I wanna do, just for a few minutes, I wanna give us a time to pray and reflect. Whichever one of these you feel led to, maybe all of them, would we praise God for the abundant mercy and forgiveness that he has shown to us? Would we pray that God would increasingly give us a heart that not begrudgingly forgives, but that loves forgiveness? Maybe a few of us need to assess our heart.
Speaker 1 00:08:47
and ask, am I withholding forgiveness from anyone? And I think there's a lot of us that we need to move, we need to forgive. And even in our heart, God is just set to please spend just what we want to do.
Speaker 1 00:11:03
God, this idea of forgiveness is at the center of the story of Scripture because it's at the center of your heart. I believe you take the idea of forgiveness as seriously as anything else. And the reason you say, as you have forgiven me, also highlights to show no harm.
Speaker 1 00:11:40
God, I ask that you would increase in us a praise and awe of what you've done to forgive us of the immense nature and problem of our sin. God, I ask that you would give us wisdom and discernment. to assess if that some of us are still prisoners she would set us free that by the power of your.
Speaker 1 00:12:13
spirit as love pours out to us that you would set us free as we forgive those who trespass and god for those who are in situations that are broken maybe they're going to sit next to among those that i ask that you are especially and powerful in the hearts and minds of those of us who need to forgive may we put on your heart may we see through us the deepest.
Speaker 1 00:12:52
expression of your love that gives us pray these things in your name amen.
Speaker 1 00:13:52
I'd love to end this morning by reading that passage in my head. Who is a God like you, pardoning iniquity, passing over transgression for the remnant of his inheritance? He does not. will not ever retain his anger forever because he delights in steadfast love. And he will again and again and again have compassion on us.
Speaker 1 00:14:24
as he treads our iniquities underfoot and as he casts our sin into the depths. My encouragement is to have a great congress first service with a woman who is feeling guilty for not forgiving herself. Please remember that God's heart towards you is that kind of humility. Humility means that it's God's heart towards you and he continually gives us opportunities.
Speaker 1 00:14:57
So this morning we're going to have our team up here. Maybe you do have someone in mind. Maybe you are hanging with them in four days. Maybe you need prayer for that. Maybe you have something else going on in life that's maybe distracting you. Whatever that may be, we're going to have a team up here. But other than that, have a wonderful Thanksgiving, and we will see you guys next time.
Speaker 3 00:16:20
My choice. I think they're too serious.
Speaker 4 00:16:30
Yeah, because I didn't think they liked cereal. They will. How many of them sell cereal? I don't know. Not a few. But it's very good. And so that's why I'm... Let's get up and... Like, I'm not going to be up and make an egg. But if the boys are up at 7am or 6.30, like, do you want to grab a bowl. 
Speaker 3 00:16:54
My voice, though? They'll grab a bowl and they'll be like, what's your breakfast? Which is fine.
Speaker 4 00:16:59
No, I'm just letting you know because... Because Papa's going to be up at 7am or 6.30, like, do you want to grab a bowl? He's going to have his waffles and he's going to have his oatmeal and he's happy with that. Do you want us to bring some cereals for our kids? What cereal do they eat right now? Let's just... Cocoa Pebbles? Yep. I don't... You know, I think you know my take on food.
Speaker 4 00:17:31
It'll happen. You know. You guys want to wait for mom or whatever? It's not my job to make sure you guys are okay. Yeah. But... Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. Because the thing is, you bring stuff and then I bring stuff and now we've got eight boxes of cereal and the kids are going to gravitate towards one or the other. So might as well grab, you know, two or three boxes. Okay. All the good and they, you know, they get to a great.
Speaker 4 00:18:02
I'm not trying to, you know, my question isn't about like, you know, us versus them. It's just, hey, I want to be accommodating to an extent. Not making sure that we feel like we have to. Because when I get up, you know, either we're going to do, you know, egg sandwiches, burritos, we're going to do, you know, maybe we'll do some sort of a burrito with some eggs and bacon or something like that. Like, there's going to be stuff like that. And that's more for the adults. That's more for us.
Speaker 3 00:18:32
And my kids love that kind of stuff. Like, they would rather wait. Like, Matthew is the one who'd grab a bowl of cereal and eat. But Ben and Eric, they'll wait until, like, 9 or 10.
Speaker 4 00:18:46
They'll wait until 9 or 10. They'll make me, like, a breakfast burrito or something like that. Which I love. Right? And so they're, like, you get a breakfast. And I have no issues with them eating that. That's not it yet. It's more about when you get up at 6.30 and you're like, what do you mean? You come book at me to ask me to come down and make you breakfast. 
Speaker 3 00:19:04
No, they won't do that. They'll just wait.
Speaker 4 00:19:06
No, our kids, they're in it for the long haul. For the reason why we let you guys. go on your ipads because it takes so if you ruin my sleep you don't picture it so that was the thing if you guys make the second i get up we're making me get up so you you guys don't know it's another. so grace that will grab a bowl of cereal if it doesn't eat it dry yeah fine all right and maddie.
Speaker 4 00:19:40
will do the same thing with the other boys especially for like them who like me i want.
Speaker 5 00:19:51
to go sit down again okay i don't want to get back up did you figure out are you able to come.
Speaker 6 00:20:08
to that, Thank you.
Speaker 4 00:20:18
We haven't really talked about it. Neither have we. It's the second to the Sunday, and it's the sixth. Which, as long as either of them, you know, they're healthy. So far, it's just Maddie in a turn. So, it's all the way up to Regulus, so. No, Eric's already, like, the last time Grammy took me, right? So, should there be other kids this time? I think it's everybody. I think it's all the kids this time.
Speaker 4 00:20:49
No, I'm just saying. But I don't know how they're going to do that and try to put as much stuff in their cards. It's just Maddie, so. You know, honestly, if they took all the kids and wanted to bring their stuff to, like, my house or your house and dump it off. We don't have to. Or maybe just my house. Truck's probably, yeah. Truck's probably easy. But I think I'm probably going to end up with. two coolers and backing honors. It's the same, right? I mean, I know that once that happens, you've got plenty of space, but if you say,
Speaker 4 00:21:19
hey, Brandon, I'm gonna have to drop this offer. I'm gonna have to throw this on the staff and she's gonna have to go over to you, or what about it? I'll throw what's ever. The employees don't have to go in offers. Probably not a bad idea to toss that idea out there, if they're gonna pick the kids. So, are you up for talking to your mom? Sounds like your mom wants to take all the kids. Your mom wants to take all the kids up to Big Bear? She mentioned that several weeks ago.
Speaker 4 00:21:51
So, no? I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 3 00:21:56
If you don't feel comfortable, then don't go. I'll have to think about it. It makes me nervous and jolly. I mean, I don't know. That was the only thing that came to mind.
Speaker 4 00:22:05
Should they be driving by themselves then? Well then, let's have that conversation right now if you're cool with it. Fine.
Speaker 3 00:22:13
Because it's like, who's driving? I mean, I'm sure, I don't know if there's any conversation. I guess the question would be, is mom and dad, do you guys think people are driving. 
Speaker 4 00:22:22
Well, they're always going to say yes. So, but here's the thing. I think, and this is meant with all respect, right? Those two would end up driving off the side of a road before they felt uncomfortable driving. Right. So, maybe this is something that we force a little bit. I mean. Maybe we say, you know, they're both together, and maybe it's you and your mom. I mean, Larry, or something.
Speaker 4 00:22:55
Yeah. I only say that because, you know. Where I drive. I know she's more limited. What time can you go? What time can we head out? My guess is I'll probably get, you know, I'll probably leave L.A. at like 11.
Speaker 3 00:23:13
I don't mind splitting up and being like, Mom, you go and you go with Brayden and I'll be with Dad or whatever, you know.
Speaker 4 00:23:21
Well, Larry's probably going to want to, well, that drive, Larry's going to want to, he's not going to sit around and wait for me, you know. Right. So maybe we need to establish, you know, hey, let's all go together and we'll leave by, you know, what time is that, one. 
Speaker 3 00:23:42
Yeah, we can ask Mom. So we can't check in until four, I think.
Speaker 4 00:23:45
Right, but it's probably going to take just that long to get out of Dodge and everything, right? Yeah, traffic. So we leave at one and we happen to hang out. By some miracle, we don't hit on the traffic, right? Yeah. Why don't I, why don't we have this planned? Feel free to, I'm running, you know, through silence. I don't want to put, well, I don't want you to think I took over, either, so. You took over, it's okay.
Speaker 4 00:24:15
Why don't we say that when I leave L.A., and I'll have a much better idea on Tuesday night, right? When I leave L.A., they head to our place, right? When they head to our place, we just throw everything in the truck.
Speaker 5 00:24:32
Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:24:33
And maybe they pick up the Lacey kids as well, right? Head to our place, and we go up in two vehicles all together. Okay. Do you want to send our kids, or do you want to take them home? Because if they take our kids, and we get snowed in by, you know.
Speaker 3 00:24:52
There's no snow. I checked. I've been checking.
Speaker 4 00:24:55
No, I mean, if they're going to be snowed in, just know that they'll be wearing long sleeves. Two black tires. And you just send them with long sleeves, so when I send them back to you, you can't see, like, their handcuff marks and stuff.
Speaker 6 00:25:09
Yeah, no, I would probably just send them. I have to, I'm closing, and I don't know what that looks like yet. Right. I mean, I'm originally going to close this early, but we have a meeting at 2 o'clock for the card system. Like, we're trying to use it. I can't imagine that will be long. 45 minutes, 45 minutes. And I figured, in my head, when I said it, it was like the last thing. And I was thinking I will put the phones on at 2 o'clock so that all the assistants will be in that meeting.
Speaker 6 00:25:41
And everybody's out. We'll put the phone on at 2, let people finish up their stuff, and we'll use this. So, that's the one. Okay.
Speaker 4 00:25:57
Yeah, I mean, just let them, you know, do their own work.
Speaker 3 00:26:11
Yeah, so the boys would go in the bunk bed. Take your parents' car. Oh, I thought we were talking cars.
Speaker 4 00:26:15
Right. Yeah. Take your parents' car so you have more sleep. But that would be me taking your car.
Speaker 3 00:26:24
Yeah. Are we gonna force my parents to not? So, I don't think, I don't think that they, I don't think they'll fight. I don't, yeah, I don't think they will. So you'll drive my, you'll drive my dad's car and then I can do that.
Speaker 4 00:26:46
You cool with having that conversation? You want me to. 
Speaker 3 00:26:49
No, I can do it.
Speaker 4 00:26:51
We can put the boss on it.
Speaker 3 00:26:56
You make dad cry, he'll make dad cry. I yell at him. I make dad cry when we talk about it. That's true.
Speaker 4 00:27:06
While he's in the hospital.
Speaker 3 00:27:07
Alright, we should probably fight him.
Speaker 4 00:27:09
I was like... I didn't make him cry, I gave him hugs.
Speaker 3 00:27:11
I like came to him and I was like, I jokingly said it. I was like, Dad, you can't die on me. And then he just started crying hard. Oh, it was horrible. Stop saying that. I thought it was a joke and then he started crying and I'm like, oh, then I cried and he...
Speaker 4 00:27:28
He was knocking on death's door with his ketoacidosis.
Speaker 5 00:27:36
Good thing I did heal him. I know.
Speaker 4 00:27:48
You're all well? Yeah. Are you running your bed? I'm going to do you guys work. I'm moving that way.
Speaker 5 00:27:57
Do you have it? Huh? Do you have me? I don't.
Speaker 4 00:28:38
So, Matty asked if you can come over today, um, well I want you to, but it's better at all. I want to get something up. I'd like to start that up again.
Speaker 4 00:29:11
I hear it's a great, literally. I like it.
Speaker 5 00:29:17
how's it going oh sorry all good i want to give mommy a break can we ask mom no i want to give her.
Speaker 4 00:29:48
a break take care thank you what's that do you see my pants yeah these are from okay.
Speaker 5 00:30:12
thank you.
Speaker 4 00:30:25
How are you? Good, how are you doing? I'm doing well, thanks. You got it! Bing! Mama.

[AI_SUMMARY]
Forgiveness is defined as the presence of mercy, not the absence of anger, motivated by love and the gospel. It does not always restore relationships or require dismantling boundaries, and trust is separate from forgiveness. Corrie ten Boom's story illustrates the struggle and power of forgiveness. Additionally, plans for a Thanksgiving trip to Big Bear include breakfast arrangements for kids and adults, driving logistics, and scheduling concerns, emphasizing the importance of collaboration and support among family members.